Last Thursday, a Q&A titled “Chris Bassitt Embraces the Art of Pitching” ran here on FanGraphs. In it, the 35-year-old Toronto Blue Jays right-hander discussed his varied repertoire — “eight or nine pitches,” he told me — and how he uses them to attack hitters. Both in terms of style and versatility, Bassitt is a close approximation of the pitcher who will represent the Kansas City Royals in tonight's All-Star Game. That would be Seth Lugo.
The Royals were at Fenway Park last weekend, and with Boston being my home base, I took the opportunity to speak with the 34-year-old right-hander. I expected a conversation like the one I had with Bassitt, and I wasn't wrong. Lugo, who boasts a 2.48 ERA and 3.31 FIP this season, is embracing the craft of hitting.
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David Laurila: How have you developed as a striker over the years?
Seth Lugo: “I can say that I learned from failure. Climbing with kids is different than jumping in the big category. Once you get to the big stage you start to notice a pattern in how your mistakes happen, whether it's pitch, sequence, or game situations. I think learning from my mistakes has been a big thing for me.”
Laurila: You were best known for your curveball, and now you have a diverse repertoire. How has your rating progressed?
Lugo: “Well, as a reliever I used to stick to my two best points and show one or two more, even if [against] right or left, toggle or slider. When I was in San Diego last year, the pitching coach, Ruben Niebla, was talking about sweeping slides. I had never heard the word sweep before. I didn't really know what it meant. We started messing around with holding on. He said to me, 'You can spin it well. You can spin other things, so it doesn't have to be just one pitch that you spin so well.' That's how it came about.
“Growing up I always played football, whether it was Whiffle Ball or baseball. I was throwing pitches, just having fun. I've always had the ability to pick up a new pitch very quickly, so I figured I could throw more than three or four pitches in a game. Right now it's up to 10 or 11. I'm blocking hitters and I'm aware of their swings, I try to make adjustments before they do it.”
Laurila: What is your current full repertoire?
Lugo: “Two-seam, four-seam, cutter, change, split-change, sweeper, slow sweeper, what I call a carry sweeper, slurve, curveball, and slider – a regular slider.”
Laurila: He's actually Chris Bassitt…
Lugo: “I think I have one or two more than him. I was also throwing a gyro sweeper earlier in the season – I haven't started four games now – so I had 12 pitches.”
Laurila: Gyro sweeper sounds contradictory…
Lugo: “Yes. It's like a gyro spin with one stitch that catches. A larger horizontal break than a standard gyro slider. It's not deep-y, but the left bud is pretty cool. A sweeper will have side spin. Gyros have bullet spin. The gyro sweeper is a bullet, but with one stitch… one catchy stitch. A seam-shift gyro.”
Laurila: But you don't really throw it now…
Lugo: “Maybe I'll take it out. I was working on a few other things. Between that and my slide they were starting to come together a little. But yes, I will take it out one day.”
Laurila: How did you first learn it?
Lugo: “Someone helped me. He said that a lot of guys around the league are swinging and lacking in gyro spin, and if you can find a way to sweep a lot with gyro spin, that guy is very hard to beat. I think [Alec] Marsh throws an exception to that. Trying to catch a few, I found one that worked very well. But it's a bit far from it. I picked it up after a month, just this season, so I didn't have much time to fix it and get it right.”
Laurila: Who raised the voice?
Lugo: “A young man I know. I will leave you like that.”
Laurila: How many pitches did you have when you entered the starting role last season?
Lugo: “Last season, I did a different slide. I threw it for two months last year before I found the sweepers and other platforms. It was like a slow slide, which I haven't thrown since. So, it was two sliders, a changeup, a four-seam, a sinker, a curveball.”
Laurila: Double the number of pitches you throw…
Lugo: “In about a year, yes. I was in IL and that's where I found a few forums – June, last year. “
Laurila: I assume you used a lot of technology when developing the pitches?
Lugo: “Actually, I have a lot of sympathy. Sensor and horizontal and vertical movement. We have TrackMan. I don't look at spin rates, really. I check my curveball every once in a while, to make sure it's spinning as it should, but mostly the horizontal and vertical movement I'm looking at.”
Laurila: Are you still throwing the same curveball?
Lugo: “It's the same curveball I've always had. I just learned how to use other pitches without it to do better. My first few years, with two strikes you probably got a curveball. That makes it easier to hit. Guys can finish pitches easily. Now, having four or five pitches in their head when they get to two strikes makes the curveball work a lot better.”
Laurila: Where do you think you would be if you were still free? Would you be as beautiful as you are now?
Lugo: “Well, I wouldn't have all these fields. I would say it would be about the same as my career. I'll be where I am.”
Laurila: With your ability to use a variety of pitches, starting seems like a natural fit.
Lugo: “Yes. That and learning changes, and trying to get guys out of certain spots to save them later in the game. Finding holes where I can go again and again. As an assistant, you only face three or four guys, so they can ambush the first pitch, or they can take it to get a strike. It's kind of a little game strategy, a trick, to raise it like a dice.
“As a beginner, if a guy has a big hole, he will show that hole. But if a guy is hitting well – he's hard to get out – he's going to show all your pitches, and you have to know where each one is going. As I walk over these hitters, we talk about where to throw each one. Some of them may not even be competitive, but I want them to look at it and think about it. I try to find a place to throw every pitch, even if it's a hitter. It's going to be somewhere they don't hit it – it might be in the dirt – but we're going to throw it away.”
Laurila: He talked about conservation themes. Why is it important not to throw something that you know the hitter has a hard time handling?
Lugo: “So, let's say he's a four-hole hitter. This pitch is going to get him out a lot every time – he's a bit touchy on it – but he's not going to turn and miss. Nobody is in the field and we are leading by three runs. I won't go straight to my best spot to get him out; I'll save that for when there are two boys and it doesn't work out. In a different situation, you do something different. That also makes it difficult for the guys to follow my sequence.”
Laurila: Something I've asked many pitchers is whether they view pitching as more of an art or more of a science. I think I know what your answer will be…
Lugo: “Art. I mean, science will help you. As with anything, you can use science to improve your techniques. You can use it as a learning tool, but you can't just plug it in. There are too many variables in there for it to work all the time. In the end – at least for me – it's not science. It is art.”
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